Directory Writing Workshops

 Writers Workshop: Writing Fantasy

Dancing Word Workshop

with Donita K. Paul

 April 29, 2005

*This chat has been edited for clarity.

Hosted by: Anne McDonald

Dancing Word Publisher/Editor

Anne McDonald: I'll open in prayer, and then go over protocol before handing the floor over to Donita.

Lord, thank You so much for keeping us this week. Thanks for giving each of us unique personalities. Please guard and guide us as we follow Your call to write. Bless our workshop guest tonight as well as all of the participants. Help us to be a blessing to You and to others. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Protocol: When Donita opens the floor to questions/comments....Type ? for questions, ! for comments and ga when you are through. Please wait to be called on in turn.

Tonight, I'm pleased to introduce Donita K. Paul as our workshop teacher. Donita, welcome.

Donita K. Paul: I am glad to be here. It has been said that fantasy is the ultimate literature of the imagination, transcending the here and now, such tales relate larger-than-life deeds set in a moral landscape. My question is: In the Christian realm, how does this hold up. What are the problems of trying to relate truth through fantasy? What are the strengths?

Shannon: In my experience, many of those who object most strenuously to fantasy do so because they somehow feel the elements of the story are at odds w/ scriptural truth. For instance, wizards and the use of "magic" in Tolkien and all the Tolkien look-alikes who are often blatantly operating in the realm of the occult or New Age. They also feel that injecting a fantastical element lures the mind out of the real world, if that makes sense.

Donita K. Paul: So are you saying that the Christian reader needs to bee more discerning because there are elements of evil pushing fantasy?

Shannon: My opinion: I think fantasy, like other mediums, is neutral in and of itself. Other people's opinion might differ, but certain elements do offend those who are perhaps easily offended ... i.e., the weaker brothers? But ALL works of art, whether fantasy or otherwise, need to be approached with discernment.

Anne McDonald: I agree that Christians need to be careful in writing elements of fantasy. There is a fine line between what is acceptable and what is not. For example, Harry Potter is totally unacceptable to our family. Yet, LOTR, Dragonspell and the Dragons In Our Midst books are wholeheartedly embraced.

robert: I think Christian writers need to be careful, all elements of fiction opens the possibility of straying from truth. Yet elements of truth and reality can be portrayed by many mediums

I think poetry can convey truth the same as a story that includes a dragon without sacrificing the essential truths of faith.

Donita K. Paul:  Think about this next aspect while we finish up this part of the discussion: Engagement with a work of fantasy requires of the reader a willing suspension of disbelief. JRR Tolkien said the altered world of a successful fantasy is one "into which both designer and spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside.”

What can we as writers do to create that fantasy world that does not offend God and allows us to enter this fantasy world?

robert: I wonder how much fantasy fiction is that much different than fiction. How is a world that is completely made up different than making up characters in a city that exists? I believe that God is honored by fictional stories, like the parables that Jesus used, they were fiction in most cases yet each one shared a bit of truth that was easier to understand because they were a story and not just some law.

Donita K. Paul: okay, let's skip to making our imaginary world real so the story does not clank, jarring the reader back to reality

Susan Cooper [British author residing in US.”The tremendous scope and intensity of Cooper’s work mark her as a modern master of the high fantasy genre.”] has said, “Fantasy, like the butterfly, flies without knowing how.” So what are the practical ways we weave a fantasy tale. Let's attack practicalities.

When you create a world, think first setting, how do you proceed?

Anne McDonald: At our house, we create maps.

Donita K. Paul: LOL. I do too when I start to get confused. That is usually toward the middle.

RitersBloc: I probably do this a bit different, but when first building a world I tend to look at who I have inhabiting it first. I tend to come up with a race and then the world.

I look at their physical characteristics, any special traits they have, and then build a world that makes sense around those.

I start big with world climate then create a few sample animals & plants to set the tone.

After that I just let it flow as I go.

Donita K. Paul: That's perfect, RB. [I didn’t mean you must create the setting first, just for sake of discussion, to think first about the setting.] When you create time units, length of days, etc, flora and fauna, it is necessary to leave an element of our world for the reader to stand on as he steps off into this state of suspension of disbelief.

wanderer: I'm with RitersBloc. I create my characters first because they are the ones that truly carry the story then I build a world to fit them.

RitersBloc: One thing important when conveying the world is context. I've found that you can bring in some strange things with the proper context and the reader can follow.

Part of that context is character reaction; part of it is in leaving enough recognizable things to reference for the reader's imagination.

Donita K. Paul: This is true, RB. When we build our world we have to decide how different it will be. Changing the number of seasons can be acceptable to the reader, but when you pile on changes without giving the reader those reference points, you get in trouble.

Anne McDonald: Donita, what exactly constitutes fantasy? Is it the larger works...or does it encompass shorter children's books as well?

Donita K. Paul: Fantasy is everything from talking toasters to George MacDonalds At the Back of the North Wind.  High Fantasy has the most developed secondary worlds. Also the protagonist, female or male, is generally the "everyman" typically from humble beginnings, thrust into a quest often with the direct of indirect goal of searching for his or her own true nature. The struggle between good and evil pervades these tales. Events are tied to universal human values and ideals.

deedee: Sorry to be late. I don't know if this question was already answered, but what is the future for Christian children's fantasy now that Harry Potter is so popular?

Donita K. Paul: Any one’s guess. Think about The Wizard of OZ, both the books and the movies. For a short period of time they spawned a myriad of copycats, then went out of fashion. I suspect that that will happen again. Let me take the copycat temn back.

Yes, there are those who just copy the trend, but there are also those who are just waiting for the chance for their pet projects to be in the limelight again. They have invested a lot in their stories, but nobody was buying. Now there is a brief window of opportunity.

Anne McDonald: Bryan Davis' fantasies take place in our present world...whereas most fantasies take place in created worlds. How do fantasy writers judge what will work best for their story?

Donita K. Paul: Well, I believe Bryan Davis' world is created too. Since he created elements that don't exist. His work has more of those relevant points for the reader to hang on to while they jump into the fantasy element. You push the envelope; you read it aloud, you wait a week, and read it again, you expose it to your critique partners. You watch for the signs that say you have gone too far, and you back up to what was working.

robert: Brandilyn's latest takes place in Redding, a real place, but certain places, streets, events and obviously the horrendous crimes are fictional. She makes it work and it is very real. I think DragonSpell is similarly real in a different place with different races including dragons.

I like the concept of the readers suspending reality and how much you can push that suspension. I think the rule is until it breaks, and if you break it hope your critique partners are honest enough to let you know.

Donita K. Paul: Great observation, Robert. I used to have people tease me that when I wrote Christian fantasy the romance part was ultimately fantasy. I mean, what man really is "all that." But in God's economy all men as they move to conform to the image of Christ are "all that."

Shannon: LOL at your romance being fantasy comment, Donita. I think finding "what works for your story" is as much a matter of prayer as any other part of writing ...at least it is for me. And I find when reading, that I can suspend disbelief until I find places where the story is inconsistent w/ itself, KWIM? The world has to be internally consistent.

deedee: I have a piece that I've been working on for years. I had it as a three-part story in a newsletter and those who read it enjoyed it. I think I'll self publish it and just share it with those interested. God has the final say on whether anything we do is good or not. I'm still going to produce this.

Anne McDonald: This question is in the context of Jason's series... He's using animal characters...and one of the characters is an otter who will be going through his culture's rite of passage..how detailed does he need to be in describing this?

Donita K. Paul: Interesting you should bring this up, because one of my sources says that all fantasy have similar themes: “coming of age, apprenticeship, or the nature of courage.” [The Essential Guide to Children’s Books and their Creators., Anita Silvey, Editor, Houghton Mifflin, 2002] But to speak to the detail in describing the rite of passage, think more on what your reader can handle. Is this going to be a boring lengthy explanation? Then don't do it

Is it too alien to our culture to be acceptable? Don't do it. Does this rite of passage contribute to the story, or is it just something the writer thinks is nifty-keeno. Measure the worth of the description.

robert: I think the Writer's Journey  by Vogler is helpful in that and being able to recognize the different plot lines, the lost love, revenge, coming of age, quest all have the same basic steps yet can be completely different plots.

I can't watch movies anymore, because I am looking for each stage in the journey, but it helps my writing a great deal, the task is making the stages belong to the characters and making the journey unique.

Donita K. Paul: OH, Robert! Exactly. That reminds me of my favorite book, because honestly. I didn't "get" Writers Journey. But I did get The Key by James N. Frey. He covered the same material but it made sense. You know Granny Noon plopped into Dragonspell because of what I read in The Key

Anne McDonald: We love Granny Noon and hope to see her more in your other books.

robert: I believe granny noon was Donita's way of getting in her story to straighten those characters out, grin.

Anne McDonald: lol

Donita K. Paul: Granny Noon is old, small, and wise.

Anne McDonald: What age group is your series written for?

Donita K. Paul: I wrote it for YA, but when I turned in the ms they did a market analysis and designated it for all ages.

wanderer: Please forgive my ignorance, I've been some 20 years in a rather isolated environment here on the mission field where reading material is rare at best. As a Christian writer I believe in being careful about what I read, however, I once had an excellent Bible teacher who told me that you have to read like you eat fish—carefully enjoying the meat and carefully throwing out the bones.

Donita K. Paul: Wanderer, I like that analogy.

wanderer: Most of the people (Christians) I know would frown on anything with a dragon in it, and please understand that I have not read any of your works, and am not being critical. My question is how do we as Christians write about something (dragons) without offending other Christians?

Shannon: I have to admit that the FIRST time I saw the title of Dragonspell, I did a double-take. For several years I've found myself caught between the "anything goes because it's fiction/entertainment/not real" camp and the "these elements are EEEEVILLL" camp. And my first thought about dragons, is, well, that dragons in scripture are always symbolic of Satan

But, on the flip side, I write about something that's considered rather heretical in some Christian circles, too--a psychic-type talent. I prayed extensively over my portrayal of that talent ... the setting, etc., and eventually had peace about it mostly because it's a different world, a different "dispensation" if you will.

Donita's world is similarly different ... which makes the spiritual rules a little different

She explains her brand of "wizardry" very well ... it is clearly NOT sorcery as we know it

Bryan's was a little harder, dealing w/ the subject of dragons in our own world, but he handles that very well, also

Donita K. Paul: One of my good friends was VERY upset with me when I started writing Dragonspell. She wouldn't let her kids read it. In the end she did an about-face and told me for her, it was like not being able to see the forest through the trees, she hadn't been able to see God's love through the wizards.

robert: Thanks Shannon. I am working to use dragons not only as good, but as metaphors for the Holy Spirit, where they are helpers to those who believe. The challenge now is whether I will have them communicate, non-verbally or at all.

Donita K. Paul: I think the key is that dragons are symbolic. A fish was not symbolic of Christians until the first century.

Anne McDonald: I've found over the past several years that some Christians will be upset no matter what you right. Several romance authors have been taken to task for their work—some even in church itself. And other Christians insist that all fiction is evil. Bottom line, you have to be at peace with yourself and God and ignore the rest.

flutter: I love how you used something interesting to convey the Christian message, Mrs. Paul.

Donita K. Paul: That's true, Annie. And thank you, Flutter

flutter:  Why did the fish become the symbol?

Donita K. Paul: The early Christians were hiding from their persecutors and used a drawn fish to point the way to where their secret meetings were being held

robert: The GREEK word for fish is similar to the word for Christ so it was a secret symbol.

Shannon: :-) Annie, you're so right about people taking offense. I think it goes back to the elements themselves and their associations.  Many people object to Christian rock b/c the awful associations within secular rock, but it ministers to a LOT of people.

I think the elements of fantasy are the same way ... and we forget that many of these elements in their "evil" context have "righteous" counterparts that get ignored

For instance, wizards and divination was condemned in the Old Testament. But the Old Testament prophets could "see" things as God allowed them, too. The key is keeping our characters in obedience to Absolute Truth

Donita K. Paul: Oh, I like how you said that, Shannon. That is so true!

Shannon: If we have some protagonist w/ supernatural abilities who uses them for his own whims, and yet is portrayed positively, like Harry Potter, we have a problem.  :-)

But by the same rule, Gandalf is acceptable.  Saruman is not.

Donita K. Paul: aha! HP bothers me in that he doesn't answer to an ultimate authority, and does not get corrected for wandering from the straight and narrow.

wanderer: As a missionary wife, mother, etc, I am in personal contact with a lot of Christians, especially when we are on furlough or deputation. It always makes me sad that so many are SO narrow.

I agree with Annie.  Many find offense in everything that is considered fiction—all fiction is EVIL. I get told things like: How can you write that stuff?  It's just lies because it isn't truth. I have written some fantasy, but I am more of a real world writer, yet I am told that I am too realistic. People get shot in my stories.  People die, etc.

Donita K. Paul: I think Robert pointed out earlier that Jesus told parables, which were fiction short stories. It is probably best to point the naysayersin that direction and then let the Holy Spirit work.

Shannon: I just wanted to comment that having sort of been there ... I went through a (blessedly short) period of time where I could not read fiction, even Christian fiction.

The Lord was doing a work in me, and needed my full attention on the real world, I guess ... LOL

I felt sort of betrayed by what I'd read in even Christian novels ... esp. some romance ... that they led me to expect something that could not be. Then the Lord brought me past that, and I started being able to look past my expectations, and seeing the good things in Christian fiction again.

I guess what I'm getting at is that like Donita said, it's the Lord's work in individual people, and we are all at different places in our walk. Nobody ministers to everyone at once, KWIM?  But if God gives you a story, you can be sure that someone out there will be blessed by hearing it.

robert: I am writing my story because my son loves swords and fighting and I was concerned about how to use the sword of the spirit and portray the realities of war. The OT is full of violence and rage including a verse where God uses a left-handed man to destroy an evil king. He walks in and says I have a message from God and shoves the sword in until the hilt is buried in his guts.

Now I do not want my story to be that violent but it showed me that God used many things, and I believe that I can use a sword and dragons to teach my son aspects of love and grace that he can relate to.

Donita K. Paul: I think you can handle violence in the same way you handle cursing. You can say he cursed without going into details. You can say he stabbed this man without describing the gore. Unfortunately many of our children can fill in the detail from what they've seen and heard on TV, etc..

Anne McDonald: Donita, what are the hardest elements of writing fantasy for you?

Donita K. Paul: The hardest part is not getting preachy. The setting, the characters, the action, are all pretty easy. But sometimes I think, "Oh what a cool place to say 'this""

And then I inject a lesson or a moral. I end up deleting that section. It is much better when I finish a scene and realize that the lesson came out of the story without me planting it. I never write with theme in mind. It ruins my story.

Okay, let me throw something else out of you. Writers of fantasy use their imagined worlds to explore the basic truths of this world. Good fantasy puts readers more closely in touch with reality.

“Ursula Le Guin has said that fantasy is truth-not factual, but true.”[taken from the The Essential Guide . . .” What do you think?

Anne McDonald: Just as Christ used parables to teach the people...I believe that fantasy (and fiction in general) can do things that nonfiction can't. And that is to put the reader in the shoes of someone facing trials and temptations that they normally would not experience on their own. Though, through reading, they can gain insight into handling problems of their own.

Donita K. Paul: Hurray! Exactly. And we can sneak truth into a resistant mind, by incorporating it into a palatable form A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down

So, as you tackle your fantasy, what are you going to concentrate on:, the story or the moral? And if you concentrate on the story, just how does the moral get in there.

RitersBloc: The story. If you have crafted your world's rules based on scriptural truths, and have characters true to those rules, the moral will come out through their actions and the events and through the character growth.

Jason: It's best to just concentrate writing the story and let the moral weave itself in naturally.

Donita K. Paul: and that is a good note to end on. We should all man our keyboards and pour our hearts into our stories

Anne McDonald: Thank you so much, Donita. This has been enlightening.

Donita K. Paul

Click cover to purchase book